INCMA Forum Posts Archive 9:
Date: 01/31/01 08:48:03 PM
Name: Sovann


Subject: Christian MA or MAist who is a Christian?
Hello friends,

How many of you teach MA as a ministry?
How many of you are commercial instructors who do not overtly advertise as a Christian ministry?
How many of you train with non-Christians?

Thanks, Sovann 

Date: 02/1/01 04:14:14 PM
Name: Vicki


Subject: Re: Christian MA or MAist who is a Christian?

When I used to train in Pasaryu Taekwondo under Robert Blackstone, he was (and still is) a Christian, (who does not teach today) who taught Christian Martial Arts. It was not much in detail to what he taught, because we did train with a majority of Christians, but some were not. We did have a cross on our patch, with meaning to it, but the only 2 things of Christianity we had to do, was one, learn John 3:16 as a yellow belt, and also at our black belt test, we had the feet washing ceramony like that of Jesus with his disciples, along with given a Bible at Black Belt, and a New Testament at Yellow Belt.
Mr. Blackstone wore the fish image on his belt, but when we got our black belts, we decided if we wanted to put anything on them or not, and we had to find the money for that.

For some of you, you know I have had dreams and visions of my own school. If that does come true, I want it to be in a commercial building, for the fact, you then do not belong to a specific denomation of Christianity, and do not have to worry about certain things that may occur. I would like to have belt verses to coorespond with the belts, liked someone stated. I really do not know much history on my style, because some of it I do not know. I of course will be if I do this, a Christian Martial Artist teaching Christian Martial Arts. I would probably have a sign with the letter T in Taekwondo or Karate which ever I choose, that looks more like a cross than the letter T, and on my door will probably keep the logo Mr. Blackston had, "Where Jesus is Master".
I would like to have demo teams to go out and share the message, for that's what the "Power Team" as most of you heard of, did, in my area to get my mother saved, and later my father. That was one of the few things that opened their eyes in the Christian faith.
I also want to give back what the martial arts did for me for other people, who may be in the situation I once was in.

When you walk into my school, if and when it exists, I want them to know right off the front end, what the school is all about. If they are non Christians, I would like them to watch carefully first, but not pressure them to just do the requirements (Christian as well) just to get a black belt. I want them to believe it with thier heart. 

Date: 02/1/01 11:13:06 AM
Name: David Lieder


Subject: Re: Christian MA or MAist who is a Christian?

I own and operate a commercial TaeKwonDo school. Our sign on the street is the Texas Flag with a Cross. Name of the school is TEXAS Tae Kwon Do. All of our documents contain letterhead with logo and the fish symbol. Learning terminology is a requirement. When testing for new belt students are required to know the traditional Korean pattern meaning (history) or they can learn the belt color meaning with associated Bible verse (ex. White=Purity). Students are given a test requirements sheet to learn terminology. All sheets have the belt color meaning with Bible verse on them. This way even if the student does care to learn the Bible verse atleast they see it and maybe someday it will play a part in their life.
Belt color meanings with Bible verse are posted on wall.
When we play music during classes it is contempory Christian music.
Students may either wear dobok top or T-shirt. The T-shirt must contain something martial arts and not contain anything objectional. I sell T-shirt with logo (Texas Flag & Cross) & "Kicking for Christ".
Our demo team is conducting chapel services at local Christian schools.
Our tuition is low and we have several students that we give assistance to or flat out let come free.
We don't preach. We perform traditional Korean ettiquette and respect. I know we have a few students that aren't believers that were at the school before we took over. By not pushing them and demonstrating His will we are witnessing to them in an unthreatening way.


Date: 02/1/01 05:05:08 AM
Name: Scott


Subject: Re: Christian MA or MAist who is a Christian?

My current instructor, of mixed knife fighting, is a Christian, but you probably would know that only by asking him. He does not overtly advertise his religion. It came out when I asked him about his logo.
My last instructor, of aikido, is openly Christian. Aikido for him is an expression of his religion. He teaches at a Zen karate school. He closes each class with a reading from the Bible. The school owner doesn't mind as long as there is no alter call.
In Indiana, my jujitsu/escrima teacher was overtly Christian and advertised it once you walked in the door. He stitched "Jesus is Lord" on his belt, and played Christian tapes when we did aerobic stuff, and had a couple posters with verses, and at one time was hosting a Bible study at the school. His media ads, though, did not say anything about religion.
Currently I train with non-Christians and Christians both. 

Date: 01/31/01 08:53:53 PM
Name: Sovann


Subject: Scott - sinawalli question

Hey Scott,

I know the standard Heaven six count sinawalli - with a right hand laptic, left hand laptic angle #1, then right hand,left hand left hand redondo on the left side, but I've seen the Lacoste six count on the Dog Brothers sinawalli tape. Never was able to drill it because no training partners at the time.

Could you write out the description if you are familiar with it? I had to return the tape and I can't find my notes on it.

Thanks, Sovann 

Date: 02/1/01 05:26:06 AM
Name: Scott


Subject: Re: Scott - sinawalli question

I don't know the word "Lacoste." But I know the Heaven six count. I'll describe Heaven six:

When the sticks hit, they will always be pointing to the sky. Hence, the descriptive word "heaven." Heaven six is not as hard as people sometimes make it, because ... it's simply parry-parry-strike, parry-parry-strike, or maybe block-parry-strike, block-parry-strike. You learned it in kenpo, but no one told you that you learned it in kenpo.

0) Start with the right stick at your right shoulder, left stick at your right ribs (so your left arm is crossing your chest)
1) Right stick forehand shot, finishing with the stick at your left shoulder
2) Left stick backhand shot, finishing with the stick at your left shoulder
3) Right stick backhand shot, finishing at your left ribs

The next 3 hits are mirror images of these previous 3 hits.
4) Left stick forehand shot, finishing with the stick at your right shoulder
5) Right stick backhand shot, finishing with the stick at your right shoulder
6) Left stick backhand shot, finishing with the stick at your right ribs

Remember that you can do the same pattern with two empty hands, with two knives, or with one knife and one empty hand. 

Date: 02/2/01 12:02:25 AM
Name: Sovann


Subject: Re: Re: Scott - sinawalli question

Thanks Scott,

Lacoste is named after Escrimador John Lacoste, one of Dan Inosanto's instructors. The sinawalli I'm talking about is "broken" or "assymetrical" - there is an extra wetick/jab in there somewhere....I just have to figure out where . I'll post it if I find it.

When I took FMA, I figured out that "Four" and "Eight" Swords are really empty-hand sinawalli. And there are lots of "guntings" in kenpo techs.

Nice description of the Heaven six - and reminder of double knife, espada y daga options. When you do stick and knife do you slash or thrust with the knife? Reverse grip or fencing grip?

Thanks, Sovann 

Date: 02/4/01 10:57:59 PM
Name: Scott


Subject: Re: stick and knife

> When you do stick and knife do you slash or thrust
> with the knife? Reverse grip or fencing grip?
Both, and both.

Reverse grip vs fencing grip is a question of the task at hand. Pick the right tool for the job you face. Sometimes reverse grip will be better, and sometimes not.

Most often, the fencing grip is better at a distance, and the reverse grip is better in the very closest ranges. When fighting with stick and knife, though, the line gets blurred. The stick will be in the lead hand, and it will be the attack weapon. The knife will be used for defense (close range, like whacking his hands and hooking his weapons), and for opportunistic strikes (at variable distances). In this dynamical roll, versatility is a big concern. The fencing grip is more versatile, and hence probably a better choice. But you can certainly find times when a reverse grip would be nice.

When I fight stick and knife, I prefer the fencing grip. I both slash and thrust as the opportunity arises. But, I will switch my grip in motion when I need the benefits of the reverse grip. 

Date: 02/6/01 06:51:47 PM
Name: Sovann


Subject: Re: Re: stick and knife

Thanks Scott.

I am enjoying your posts. Glad you are here. If you are ever in Portland, OR you must visit and train.

Blessings to you, Sovann 

Date: 01/31/01 11:48:51 PM
Name: Vicki


Subject: Re: Re: continue training by teaching?

Thanks for your ideas, so far no one I know wants to or has the time to learn. I know about going 6 days a week, if you could, I used to go 5, then down to 3 when classes were going through a transition change. I loved it so much! I used to assist teaching when I was just a yellow belt, (a guy asked me to help, and later became a boyfriend) He encouraged me to help, and raised my confidence. We don't date anymore, but he's why I think I started to like it more. Teaching in the state of Mississippi can be a prob w/ wet winters, and humid sweating hot summers, but indoors if a facility is available is good.
Don't have a training buddy now, but would need them to help with some things.

but again, thanks.

--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

If I could do as I please, I'd be in martial arts class six days a week. My real life is such that I can rarely go more than one day a week. This depresses me, so, recently I offered (begged, almost) to teach a law school classmate Filipino martial arts. I'm not charging him any money. The benefits to me are many.

1) It gives me another day of training, both physically, because I'm doing the stuff with him, and mentally, because I decide the lesson plan.
2) I firmly believe that if you can't explain it, then you don't know it. Thus, in order to teach my friend the XYZ technique, I really have to know the XYZ technique inside and out. He will ask questions as we're going along.
3) I dream of having my own school someday, operating out of my backyard. Teaching my friend gives me the necessary training in "teaching" -- enunciation, clarity of my sentences, ability to describe something, courage before a group (okay, he's only 1, but still), train of thought, and so on. For that matter, talking out loud is good training for life.
4) I now have a live partner with whom I can practice drills. Once he learns something, then the roles almost reverse. To a large degree I become a student, because he's a live moving target for me to hit/lock/block/whatever. We don't spar per se, but Filipino martial arts have numerous flow drills that are one step removed from sparring. It's great practice for me in spite of the great difference in our skill levels.

Maybe you can find someone who wants to learn taekwondo. Who knows, this might be the gateway to starting your own taekwondo school. 

Date: 02/2/01 04:20:54 PM
Name: Vicki


Subject: uniform & no shoes / or street clothes and shoes

How many of you train in a facility with a uniform and no shoes in your "dojo" and how many of you train in a "dojo" with street clothes and shoes?

If you train in a place that is with a uniform and no shoes, why? What are some benefits that come with this type of training? Have you ever considered having class once in a while with street clothes and shoes?

Those of you who have street clothes and shoes, do you require a certain type of shoes, or certain types of clothing, like jeans, sweats, or what? What are the benefits you have with this type of training. Has the thought of ever using a uniform and no shoes come to mind?

My old school used to have uniforms and no shoes, but my instructor was taught this way, and passed that down. It is a little easier to keep discipline if we all have the same type of uniform, and do not have to be concerned with, oh, he's got a nice windsuit on, or wow, look at those shoes... and such. It was easier to move around to do forms, weapons, and such, but it lost the effect of real life situations.

Real life situations one may not have a loose fitting uniform on the street, making it hard to grab the lapel or a martial arts belt for anything. Someone may have a bycycle pants on or something that make it hard to grab any of their clothing. Also training with shoes, is more realistic, (Inless it's hot summer outside and you are wearing flip flops or no shoes at all) but have good sides to it as well. Shoes allow for your foot to have a bit of protection when kicking, if you choose to do so. Also, if you happen to have a steel toe shoe or boot on, that can be a good thing too, (if you are the one kicking...) Street clothes can limit your moves, as well.

What do you do, what do you perfer? Any more ideas?


Date: 02/22/01 01:42:40 PM
Name: Philip A. Payne


Subject: Re: uniform & no shoes / or street clothes and shoes

Hmmm ...
This is a question many martial artists struggle with. For the longest time I thought it was "breaking tradition" to not wear a gi in class. When I finally stopped using them in my school I was accused of exactly that.
The truth is that traditions become traditions because they serve a purpose for the people who follow them. Once the tradition stops serving a purpose, this it ceases to have value. In some ways I feel this is true of the karate gi.
Gi's are simply the clothes which are common in many parts of Asia. I've never been there, but one of my teachers toured Japan and the Ryukyu islands several years ago and came back with pictures of what I thought were karateka. Then he informed me that, to his surprise, everyone there seemed to dress like they were going to karate class. Then he explained that he had been told it is only over here that such clothing is associated specifically with martial arts. I guess the old teachers were just wearing what was comfortable.
I try to make my classes 100% realistic. For that reason non of my students were gi's. They come in what ever they have had on that day and are forced to learn the limitations of those clothes. Only one of my students trains barefoot and then only part time. He makes extra money as a life guard during the summer months and is barefoot much of the time. Therefore, it is practical for him to train part of the time in bare feet.
I have often thought of having a school t-shirt made up, but for the purpose of school spirit and advertisement within the community. You mentioned needing a uniform to keep discipline, but in my experience a good teacher maintains discipline in any situation. My students know how I expect them to act in and out of class and that has nothing to do with a uniform.
As for belts and sashs, one of the schools of Ken-shen ryu has begun using sashs again and the rest may shortly. I don't know yet if this is good or bad, but I have seen enough evidence that it would have be possitive, that I have agreed to allow it on a trial basis. My fear is that politics will again become a factor and that has no place in the martial arts in my opinion.
Also, there was something said about uniforms keeping students from thinking about the clothes other people were wearing. If a student is going to be preoccupied so easily, s/he will be so regardless of what distraction is presented. It could as easily be the whiteness of the next guy's uniform.
All in all, I think every school needs to do what its teacher(s) think is best to reach the goals they've set. For my school I have set the goal of reaching people for Christ and bringing them to Him through the martial arts. I happen to have an affinity to the rough and tumble, take him out hard and fast type of training and so I tend to reach more people who are into that sort of thing. I can accomplish that goal wearing gi's and no shoes, but I have better luck being more practical in the training.
To each his/her own.
Yours in the warrior tradition,
His humble steward,
Philip A. Payne, benfactor. 

Date: 02/23/01 05:49:22 AM
Name: John R. Himes


Subject: Right on, Philip

I agree with Philip. He is right on target. For clarification, though, let me add to what his teacher said. It is possible in Japan to tell the difference between a martial artist and someone else who is wearing a "gi" ("blue collar" worker, food kiosk or worker, participant in a festival, chef in a traditional restaurant, etc.).

The difference is in the martial arts belt. I often see people going to their class at the dojo wearing their gi, and they are immediately reconizable as martial artists because that kind of belt is worn nowhere else. The same is true to a much lesser degree in China with the sash, which may or may not be worn by a Chinese with a traditional "sam" garment in other contexts than the martial arts.

So that brings up another subject for forum discussion. How important is the belt/sash for an American martial artist? 

Date: 02/24/01 11:47:08 AM
Name: Philip A. Payne


Subject: Re: Belt? Sash? Points to ponder.

I think the real question here is not how important are belts to western martial artists, but
what do they mean to the average person. There was a time when to be a black belt (of any
level) in pretty much any style carried a lot of weight. Now I'm sad to say that just about any
John, Dick or Harry can "earn" a black belt.
For the record, I'm not talking about organizational or positional ranks either. I think
there is something to be said for those, in that they help to ensure the propagation of specific
systems and causes ... then again there are those who use them for political purposes ... grrrr!
Anyway, we've reached a point where to be able to say, "Yeah, I'm a black belt," carries
very little weight. Not just within martial arts circles where certain teachers have always rolled
their eyes at someone who claimed a black belt from such and such a school or style, but among
people who have never studied, yet can see with ease that to be a "black belt" has lost the
meaning it once had.
This is in part because a lot of teachers have lowered belt requirements a great deal in
order to keep students coming back. I hold one of my black belts in a certain school, where I
had to learn fifteen kata as I went up the ranks. We also had to learn empty hand and weapons,
kick/punch and grappling, the works. At the time it was the most well rounded class I had ever
been in.
Now that same school requires only seven kata and almost no grappling to get the same
rank. To put it bluntly, schools (at least a lot of them I've seen) are turning out a lower quality
product than they used to. As a result, the public thinks less of that product.
Think about it. If Ford, Chevy, Dodge or any of the others dropped their quality
requirements by half, would they still be considered to be among the best? Would the
government allow them to stay in business?
It's hard for me to write this without sounding like I'm in favor of making all systems
follow the same requirements. I'm not for that at all. In fact, I think the independence of the
individual instructor is a part of what keeps the martial arts interesting.
I do however think that if we are going to salvage the kyu/dan system (or some form
thereof) it is going to take a large number of committed instructors coming together to make a
stand and say "this is what a black belt SHOULD be" and holding to it. So I guess the question
is, does someone out there care enough to get the ball rolling?
Maybe this is a place for the Christian Martial Arts Community to step up and take
action. Back when this forum first got started someone suggested a Christian belt system. I say it
might work. However, it's been tried before and the result (at least where I've seen it) was a
bunch of "black belts" who couldn't fight their way out of a paper bag but required their students
to "perfect" their abilities.
It's been a long time since I used a belt in my school. Sometimes I think they might be a
good thing to bring back, but then I remember all of the politics and other trouble they caused
and I'm not so sure.
Recently another teacher, one of the first to cut me down when I started down the path
I'm on, told me that if I were to begin granting belts again he would respect them more than any
other belts given by any other teacher. He said it's because I went so long without granting one
and he has seen what my students go through, so it would mean something. He went on to say
that maybe every instructor should have to go through a period of self-sacrifice like this, but then
as he pointed out, there might not be very many instructors.
I don't know the solution to this dilemma. Believe me, I've wrestled with it for a long time
and have found no solid answer. What I do know is that if the martial arts as a whole are going
to maintain any form of respect in the public eye, something needs to change.
Several individuals have proposed abolishing the current system in favor of a new one. I
must admit that I was once an avid proponent of this movement and still feel a strong bond to
those currently engaged in the propagating the idea. This remaining connection is due in part to
the fact that I still see it as a option, just not one I'm pressing for.
I don't know if I'll ever go back to using belts. I'll have to pray on that some more. For
the moment, I'm using a separate system which has worked up to this point for the schools in my
system. So long as it continues to work, I suppose we'll continue to use it. The problem then is
that when my students move through the martial arts circles, they get asked, "What belt are you."
They have to answer, "I don't have a belt" and other martial artists simply assume they don't
know anything. Non practitioners tend to think the same thing.
I've thought about assigning each level a belt equivalent, but even that doesn't mean
anything. A blue belt in one school is the same level as a red belt in another school, but the
requirements are completely different. An eighth kyu in one school is a white belt, but in another
school there are twenty kyu ranks, which makes eighth kyu more than half way to black belt.
Again, there is no standard, so what is the public to think?
No answers here on this one, just more questions than I know what to do with.
Yours in the warrior tradition,
His humble steward,
Philip A. Payne, benefactor. 

Date: 02/24/01 06:02:38 PM
Name: Vicki


Subject: Re: Re: Belt? Sash? Points to ponder.

Belts are hard to for the reason like you said of all schools are different.
I talk to a friend on line from Kentucky who is a black belt in Tang Soo Do, under the Chuck Noris style, but in her system the belts are different than ours. Her purple belt is the 4th belt, because they earn a white belt. In our style, purple belt was the fifth belt.
A good exmple is the style Jeff teaches, green belt for his school is just before brown and then it's black. In our school it was the 3rd belt. In other schools it was 4th or fifth depending if they had a gold or orange belt.
Belts are not consistant in all schools, so the case one may ask what rank, but rank means nothing, if the styles aren't the same.
A school in my county uses half kyu ranks too, (to charge more for belt fees, since each stripe is a new belt) and it gets confusing.

I feel if i teach one day, I want my students to have a rank, but it'll be both physical and spirtual.

In my old school we learned a lot compared to other schools.
We had 22 forms, from white to the last test in red, 23 kicks, many strikes, and 8 sets of 5 self defense sets, sparring, weapons, and much more. Many from other schools said that we learned too much, because in some TKD systems 24 is the total of forms, from white to top of the degrees in black.
I dont' know, I just feel like my black belt was earned, not given to me.
I guess you have to do what you feel is right. 

Date: 02/24/01 03:55:34 PM
Name: Scott


Subject: Re: Points to ponder.

Right on, Philip Payne. My thoughts exactly.
You and me and the rest of us in INCMA, we can be the generation that brings meaning back to the "black belt" rank. We can do it. 

Date: 02/28/01 12:13:50 PM
Name: Philip A. Payne


Subject: Re: Re: Points to ponder.

When this whole discussion started, I decided to do some serious research into the ranking systems of various styles and organizations. Below is a the address for a page which jogged my memory.
Many years ago one of my teachers told me that the kyu/dan system had its roots in the Japanese military ranking system. It seems like he said he read it somewhere, but I have to assume there's some truth to it. He said the Japanese have kyu/dan rankings for everything from chess to soccer, that it is just a part of their culture.
When I saw this site it made me think hmmm, if they fashioned their ranking system after their military, purhaps we in the west should follow suite. Perhaps belts are not the way for us at all.
It's just a thought. Look at the site and let me know what you think. 

Date: 02/23/01 07:39:57 PM
Name: Vicki


Subject: Response to belt and sash

The way I feel, is this.
If martial arts uniforms are required, I have to wear some type of belt to keep the top from flying open and exposing myself, because I perfer not to wear a shirt under my uniform top. I perfer the heavy weight top, so it's already hot. I wear a tank type top underneath, but still am embarassed to have it seen if my top were to fly open.

I also believe for Americans who take martial arts for a self-confidence, self-esteme aspect, belts can be good to show thier progress. I realte to that, for when I first started martial arts I didn't like myself, and felt like everyone didn't like me either, because of being made fun of all my life.
As I earned belts, I knew I had to be somebody, progressing, I felt better about myself. Progressing past people who started before me, made me even feel better. (I never went past the regular time, just many didn't give all they had to give in class or failed to show up all the time to test on time) As I earned my black belt, it felt like it was the greatest thing since I started the martial arts.
Belt and Sashes are great, if you do earn them, instead of some styles that just give them away because you signed up for a 3 year contract and should be a black belt by the time you leave a school. I felt deep down inside at the time of my training I earned my black belt. I missed only 2 or 3 regular classes, and about 2 weeks when I went to boot camp. I came early, to assist in teaching when I was just a yellow belt, and continued to assist to the day I left. I arrived early after changing locations to help set up the new training facility. So I knew that I earned it, and it wasn't just given to me.

That's my thought.


Date: 02/6/01 06:41:03 PM
Name: Sovann


Subject: Re: uniform & no shoes / or street clothes and shoes

When I studied FMA, shoes were a must - no fun to have sticks, knives or machete fall on your toes when disarmed .

First time I got kicked with a steel toe boot was an eye-opener too.

Now, I'm need some wrestling shoes. I just started Vale Tudo/BJJ/wrestling. They don't mind bare feet, but I want a little more traction for takedowns and I think it might save my toes from injury too. I haven't seen too many guys try leg or ankle locks yet.


Date: 02/4/01 08:21:21 PM
Name: John R. Himes


Subject: Re: uniform & no shoes / or street clothes and shoes

This may be the most misunderstood part of the martial arts cultural differences between the West and Asia. The truth is, when you wear a Karate gi you are wearing Japanese street clothes! And it is not just from 100 years ago, either. I wish I could take you all to a street vender for "yakitori," which is chicken-on-a-stick with a delicious sauce cooked over charcoal. You would look at the vender and say, "What a neat gi!" Again, at a traditional Japanese festival you would see many of the participants with a karate-type top on called a "happi." These are usually not white, but very colorful.

A businessman will wear a western suit, a Japanese blue collar worker will often wear traditional Japanese clothes. What has happened in the martial arts, though, is that Japanese instructors have tried to make the uniform something sacred, which is why virtually all dojos over here require white uniforms. If your art is somehow pure and sacred to you, then wear the white uniform, by all means.

In our case, we have a Chinese art. The Chinese "sam" (uniform) is, like the gi, merely street clothes. To this day, people in most of China wear a "sam." Therefore when you see a picture of Chinese martial artists wearing the "sam," they might just be there in their street clothes! And oh, yes, they will probably be wearing shoes. If they do have a school uniform it is more likely to be a school t-shirt, a sash and black pants.

Because of these factors and because I teach a practical self-defense art, we practice in street clothes. If you feel the need for an Asian uniform, fine, no problem. It probably won't affect your performance that much, and it will look neat. But remember, over here in Asia it is just street clothes!

Oh, yes, the shoes part. In Japan, we take off our shoes indoors no matter where we are--home, church, martial arts school. It's a very clean custom, and my wife and I practice it even when we are in America, but there is nothing sacred about it. When Japanese martial artists practice outdoors, chances are they will be working out with shoes! 

Date: 02/3/01 05:13:08 PM
Name: Marc Paine


Subject: Re: uniform & no shoes / or street clothes and shoes

I think if you can do a technique properly in the dojo, wearing a gi and barefoot, then you will do the technique properly on the street. If you need a gi to do a technique for self-defense, then you aren't doing the technique right. End of story.

Good martial arts translate directly from the dojo to the street. Uniform isn't the only thing. I know people in MA who have great posture in the classroom and slouch the rest of the time. They are inferior martial artists. Your martial art should suffuse your life, and only in this way will you be street capable. Another good example of this is attitude. In a dojo, I don't care if you're wearing a gi or jeans... you know you're going to fight or grapple. When on the street, only the martial artist who keeps the same spirit he has when he knows he's going to fight in the dojo will succeed in a fight on the street. It's all in our heads.
I am personally in favour of uniforms and no shoes because it helps give you the right spirit... just like having a sacred space (like a church) helps put you in the right frame of mind to worship God. Just like our faith, however, if we don't work to have that same frame of mind when we're not in the church, then we are not succeeding in either our faith or our martial art. Both must suffuse our lives outside the dojo/church if we are to be effective. 

Date: 02/6/01 06:54:25 PM
Name: Sovann


Subject: Re: Re: uniform & no shoes / or street clothes and shoes

Nice reply Marc!!

Living the martial way and a life in worship to God, regardless of what you are wearing or where you are.

Postures and environment and music to help facilitate a mindset that is more receptive to hearing God's voice or helping us focus on Him or on our workout.

God bless, Sovann 

Date: 02/2/01 11:13:09 PM
Name: Chris


Subject: Re: uniform & no shoes / or street clothes and shoes

In the school I attend we also wear pretty much what's comfortable. Our classes are basically divided into stand-up and grappling. In the stand-up class most everyone wears shoes. Usually any good cross-training shoes although some wear casual street shoes. In the grappling class most go barefoot as a courtesy, but I wear grappling shoes for both. With certain mats, if you have them, regular street shoes can tear them up quickly. The grappling shoes don't really hurt it.
Isn't this really the age-old dilemma of martial arts? Trying to find ways of simulating real combat as much as possible. Although I lean towards realism I'm not a complete fanatic about it. For example doing throws and breakfalls on the concrete parking lot of the school really isn't my idea of a good time. Guess I'm a wimp that way. God bless! 

Date: 02/2/01 08:44:01 PM
Name: Scott


Subject: Re: street clothes and shoes

Currently, street clothes and shoes. Students wear whatever they want to wear. For one guy, that's sweats. For another guy, karate pants and a tshirt. For most of us, it's jeans and a tshirt. We don't do sport MA. It's all warfare MA. (I know a lot of places make that same claim.) Because of this combat goal, this bias against sport that we have, we logically choose to wear street clothes. The reason is the obvious reason that everyone knows: you can't do everything in normal clothes that you can do in a gi. Fighting in a tshirt and jeans is necessarily differnt than fighting in a gi. It's different. I believe in consistently. If I say that I'm learning combat fighting, not sport fighting, then I should be wearing "combat" clothes -- street clothes. When I graduate from school, and have to wear a suit and tie, then I will wear a suit and tie to some of my MA classes.

But don't take this as a slam on sport. I have full respect for sport MA. I too did some judo, and wore a judo gi, and I too did some BJJ, and wore their gi. If I was still doing sport MA, then I would wear a gi. That would be proper.

At my previous four schools, at all of them, we wore uniforms and went barefoot. Only one of them was openly teaching a sport (Brazilian JJ). The others claimed to teach self-defense for the street. It was only at the last school, the aikido class held at a Zen karate school, that I had the courage to ask my teacher, "Why are we dressed like this?" He told me that the school owner wanted us to dress like this. I never asked the owner why. 

 Date: 02/2/01 11:33:39 PM
Name: Vicki


Subject: uniform and belt respect

For those of you who have uniforms and belts / sashes in your system I have a question for you.

Is it disrespectful in your style to walk in a school with a uniform on without a belt on or is it disrespectful to walk in a school with a belt on?
Also, is it disrespectful to talk into a school with half a uniform on, like the pants on, but no top or belt?
What about wearing just pants with a t-shirt and wearing a belt on, is that disrespect?
I am asking because in several styles I took it was always different in each style.

My main style, of pasaryu we could walk in a school with a uniform on completely, partially or not one at all, and then change in the dressing room. Most kids who wore their uniform to class usually either had a shirt on with their pants and put the top and belt on before class started, or came with the entire uniform on later. Most of them never walked in with the uniform on completely missing just the belt before they walked in. My old school though did give a student 10 pushups if they did not have thier belt on once we were in line ready for class.
In Shotokan they considered it rude to not have a belt on with the uniform. (at least where I went) Using the belt in any other way was wrong. They didn't like to hear about our rope defenese from my old style using the belt for practice. They didn't like the fact of us laying our belt off to the side when we did our rope defense against another partner either. Most who walked in the dojo there either had no uniform on, and got dressed, or wore the complete uniform on as they walked in the dojo. I see that a lot also with a TKD school in the next county over.
When I took up Kyokushinkai kids walked in with either no uniform on or their enire uniform on without a belt. When the bowed in then they would be able to put their belt on. A belt must be removed before bowing out and leaving the dojo. Showing your rank outside the dojo to them was considered disrespect.
He also said anyone to touch a black belt that is tied around your waist, except for the sensei was wrong, and when I was in Shotoakan, a student took off my black belt, (a white belt student) and said you have your belt tied wrong. (That school tied it to cross in the back) and then retied it without my permission. The instructor in Kyokushinkai said that should have never been allowed. Also, in Kyokushinkai, a student was given pushups for not wearing a belt to class.

What do you do, or do you make a deal about it?
I personally don't like to wear a uniform without a belt on. I feel the belt is part of the complete uniform so when I am wearing the pants and the top, a belt should be there as well.

*for me, it helps keep the pants on better, and the top from flying open.* 

Date: 02/5/01 08:13:39 AM
Name: David Lieder


Subject: Re: uniform and belt respect

I don't believe that it is simply disrespectful or not. It all depends on the rules of the school. I teach traditional TaeKwonDo but allow T-Shirts to be worn (must have some type of martial arts on t-shirt). Belt must be on when time to line up for class or else push-ups.
There is something to be said about traditional respect. But you also have to consider the culture in which we live. There is no right or wrong. You decide how you want it to be and be consistent.


Date: 02/22/01 01:56:23 PM
Name: Philip A. Payne


Subject: Re: uniform and belt respect

Well now,
Again I say, "To each his own."
When I used to use belts in class I gave the rank and left it up to the student if s/he wanted to wear it. However, if the student was wearing a gi s/he had to wear a belt. If the student was wearing a belt, /he had to wear a gi. It was all or nothing.
I guess I feel that every teaher has the right and the responsibility to run his/her school as s/he sees fit. If your school has a set policy on these things then it is only respectful that you follow it. On the other hand I wonder where the one instructor thinks s/he has the right to say that the policy of another instructor in his/her own school is wrong comes from.
My self, I look at the practices of a school down the road and I think, "Gee, that's about dumb." Then I go about along my merry way and don't concern myself with it. I've even been invited to there classes for rank testing several times and have gone, never once saying anything about their traditions.
As for no one touching the black belt but the instructor, I think it's a bit obsurd, but again that's just my way of looking at it. That instructor may have a reason I can't see which makes it a valid concept ... I doubt it, but hey that's just me being opinionated again.
God bless.
Yours in the warrior tradition,
His humble steward,
Philip A. Payne, benefactor. 

Date: 02/3/01 05:02:19 PM
Name: Marc Paine


Subject: Re: continue training...

I would encourage you to find a school of a different style to get into. Don't let pride keep you from beginning a new art as a white belt. Your experience will help you to advance quickly, as well as discover and make up for deficiencies in your existing style.

As far as teaching... make sure you know the stuff before you teach it, and if you don't have your black belt, don't teach at all. There is a big difference between finding another martial artist to train with and starting from scratch with a new person.
The problem with weak martial arts now is that too many people are unqualified to teach but are teaching (even people who ARE certified to teach). I recommend finding a martial arts partner who practices a different style altogether... that way you'll learn strengths and weaknesses from each other and compensate in your own arts. This is mutually beneficial.

" who preach Buddhism without enlightenment: you kill Buddhism." -Zen Sermon

The same applies to martial arts. Don't teach something you haven't mastered. You'll just kill martial arts.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

Most of you know I have had many problems with finding a new place to continue my martial arts training due to poor instructors, money situations, or other things that get in the way, but what I do know is mostly from my main style of martial arts, Pasaryu Taekwondo.
We had a large amount of requirements compared to most other surrounding schools, such as 22 forms, 23 kicks, 8 sets of self-defense, and much more, as a member of the Demo Team.
However, after being out of my original style for just over 2 years, and having little experience with the secondary styles of Kyokushinkai and Shotokan (which at that amount of time were simular to my Pasaryu Taekwondo) I learned most of the same things.
What I am asking is what can you recommend for a person to continue training without a "dojo" for the time being. Things don't feel as great as they used to be when I was part of a training facility, with other classmates, learning new requirements. I have my black belt tape for reference, but only a few things I do not remember completely. Bad feelings of anger strike when I watch that tape, no matter how much I pray before watching it, because of the new instructor who took over is on that tape, along with my original instructor. The new instructor did a few things that really lost my respect for him, and I get fustrated just to hear or see him on that tape.
I am asking if you have any ways, (for now that do not cost any money) that can help motivate me to train, (by getting back into better shape, and to regain my experience) that will be both exciting and rewarding.


Date: 02/3/01 07:13:36 PM
Name: Vicki


Subject: Re: Re: continue training...

I am a black belt in my original style, and I have been teaching since yellow belt white belt requirements, and then later to other requirements below my rank. I only have forgotten a few things from my original style, such as 2 or 3 forms out of 22 and also a few sets of self defense. I have searched my area for another martial arts school, and nothing is in my driving distance to where I can afford to continue training already. I already pay $60.00 a month to $75.00 a month depending on the cost of gasoline to go to school. I go about 260 miles each week, just to school and back, not counting going to work.
I enjoy teaching. My original instructor always said, if you you can teach what you know, then you know it, but if you have any doubt on what you know, then you yourself don't know it. I have checked the phone book in Memphis today, and only 3 places offer something different than what I know. One is hapkido, in Bartlett, about 40 miles one way. Another is Aikido which is 30 miles from home, and the third is Judo which is about 35 miles from home, all one way. I do not mind starting over, if it is something that is new to me, or if that is the rules of what they know. That way I will probably have a better chance of not missing something they know.
For now, I'll just have to wait, and see what happens. 

Date: 02/4/01 12:47:50 PM
Name: Scott


Subject: Re: train with a new style

> I recommend finding a martial arts partner who practices a
> different style altogether... that way you'll learn
> strengths and weaknesses from each other and compensate in
> your own arts. This is mutually beneficial.
Ah, yes, very good idea. Very good.

> " who preach Buddhism without enlightenment: you kill
> Buddhism." -Zen Sermon
> The same applies to martial arts. Don't teach something you
> haven't mastered. You'll just kill martial arts.
True. A good student can teach basics to a novice, but no more than that, and it would only be a foundation from which only then to learn. You really do have to be the "master" of something before you can truly and genuinely teach it, for real. I have to agree with Marc Paine. 

Date: 02/4/01 08:34:26 PM
Name: John R. Himes


Subject: Re: continue training...

Yesterday I watched some K-1 kickboxing on the tube. The final match was between a well-known karateka, 39-year-old Kakuta Sensei. Before the match he was quoted as saying he had finally learned the secret of lowering his center of gravity (the "hara") and being stable. He fought a 26-year-old who outweighed him by 20 pounds and out-reached him, too. He came out with a draw, and watching I saw that he did, indeed have better balance and stability and I was very impressed. Here was a guy, a professional karateka who had been training for 23 years but nevertheless was still learning and improving.

Vicki, by all accounts you have a great foundation and great potential. Please don't think I'm preaching, but I hope you will continue to improve on what you have (as well as learning new arts, as others have suggested). Do your kata and techniques in different ways (slowly, quickly, for form, for power, low stances, high stances), considering new applications for every move, and you can train on what you have for another 10 years, easily. Then you will be ready to be a true master instructor (rank is secondary).

In my own case I trained without an instructor for 10 years, from 1976 to 1986--all by my lonesome until my son got old enough to teach. And I was able to learn and grow in the way I just described. In fact, I am still discovering new applications from forms I learned 25 years ago! In 1986 I was fortunate enough to get back in training with my instructor during a trip to the States, and learned Yim Wing Chun from him (the art of Yip Man's nephew, Lo Man Kam, who lives in Taiwan) and also some internal arts. Never stop learning! 

Date: 02/4/01 08:43:16 PM
Name: John R. Himes


Subject: Re: Favorite Locks/Throws and Anatomical Knowledge

1. My favorite standing lock is with the thumb and 2nd finger to the nerves on both sides of the jaw just under the jawbone. Push up with your whole hand and you can control his head. Any lock that controls the head is good--it can lead to takedown and control. My favorite lock in ground work is the jujigatame ("cross mark hold") of Judo/Jujutsu. The reason is that this is probably the easiest ground work arm lock to get into, and it can be done from many different positions.

2. Anatomical knowledge, the more detailed the better, is absolutely essential for developing a high level of martial art, for both fighting and healing.
--- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- ---

Replying to:

Two questions:

1. What is your favorite lock/submission/throw? Why? Describe it.

2. How important do you think anatomical knowledge (beyond the superficial) is to martial arts instruction? How about general sports medicine/chinese medicine/sports massage and therapy? 

Date: 02/4/01 08:51:31 PM
Name: John R. Himes


Subject: How difficult is self-defense?

Do we really need to know kick-boxing and full-contact to learn self-defense? Is the old Japanese "one-blow is enough" concept valid for self-defense? How much can a street punk know about real fighting, anyway? Why couldn't a well-trained green belt in any good martial art take care of the average undisciplined, untrained street punk? (I am not talking about defense against knives and guns, here, of course.) 

Date: 02/5/01 04:29:29 PM
Name: Marc Paine


Subject: Re: How difficult is self-defense?

Always assume that your opponent is better than you are.

While the average green belt could probably beat the devil out of an "untrained street punk," this is assuming a lot. I know "untrained street punks" who can box or wrestle like you wouldn't believe. It is just plain stupid to always assume your opponent will be an idiot.

As for size, strength, etc...

The important thing is patience. Most martial arts teachers rush the students through techniques before they have mastered them. The reasons for this are manifest, from not discouraging little Billy and causing him to drop out (thus not paying the dojo rent) to overanxious instructors. This leads to students who know a lot of techniques but aren't proficient in ANY of them. These students will be eaten alive on the street.

Self-defense is a delicate issue. Most self-defense is grappling or joint-locking oriented, not striking. If I had a dime for every TKD instructor who has attended a seminar in Jujitsu and decided to put that on his sign as well, I'd be rich. This is a simple case of incompetent instruction. If you want self-defense, go to a school that integrates grappling with striking.

How hard is self-defense? In short, it is variable. At my school we learn questionable arts like escaping arrest and countering advanced techniques. I feel competent to defend myself against another martial artist. If, however, you want to learn only enough to defeat a thug... well, just pray he hasn't had any martial arts himself.

Always assume your opponent is better than you are. Never stop learning. Strive to be the best. Don't settle for second best. Learn to use what you know before you try to learn more. Period. 

 Date: 02/8/01 12:50:15 AM
Name: Kevin D. Schaller


Subject: Re: Re: How difficult is self-defense?

Excellent post, Mr. Paine!
A couple questions, if you would. What style do you teach? Also does your dojo embrace the traditional Japanese protocol when addressing "sensei", that is to use the last name, followed by the term sensei....

all this to say...

"Paine Sensei" has a VERY cool ring to it, especially in context to this thread! :^)
in His grip,

Date: 02/9/01 11:26:31 AM
Name: Marc Paine


Subject: Re: Re: Re: How difficult is self-defense?

Actually, I teach a Chinese style, so I am called Paine Sifu "Master Paine" or Paine Laotse "Teacher Paine." Obviously I do not observe traditional Japanese protocol, nor do I make a big fuss about Chinese words and things like that.

The style is Wudang Taijiquan, seng wu yi curriculum.

Pax Christi

Date: 02/5/01 03:29:43 PM
Name: Vicki


Subject: Re: How difficult is self-defense?

I don't think full contact teaches anything about self-defense except for how hard you strike, but that even doesn't matter, if you are striking in the wrong areas.
I have seen black belts that don't know anything about self-defense, and seen ranks as low as green (in my style that was the 3rd belt) that can do better. It's all about knowing where to strike, and also accomodation.
By accomodation you have to learn how to self-defend yourself against people of all sizes. I'm short, only 5'2" and could defend myself easy against smaller people, buy how many out there that would atttack someone else, be shorter than 5'2" in the real world? Not many. Therefore, I have to learn how to defend against a person who is taller and that can be the difficult part of self-defense.
My black belt test, I chose Bill, a fellow who is about 250 or more in pounds, and probably another foot taller than me, for my yellow belt self-defense. That set is an easy set, but with a guy that big, for me makes it more of a challenge. Some of the stuff we do in our sets of self-defense are not what I would do against a person of such size.
Being small, you have to put more strengh into your stuff, to defend.
For an example, a bear hug from the behind, when I turn to face your back, a person my size or slightly larger, will work to do the rest of that set of self defense which is shoving the arm up and breaking it at the sholder location going in the direction of the spine, but any larger than let's say 5'5" would not work. You have to always practice several ways to get out of each situation and feel confident with that.
I trained with more of the kids in my class that were like 14-15 because when I started I was 17 and later turned 18. There were not many women in my class, except for one, who showed up once in a while. My instrucor would pair me up w/ some of the men who were higher ranks than me later on, but he had to show me other ways to move around with my height.

Self defense is only difficult if you learn one way to get out of each position.

That's my thought. 

Date: 02/6/01 06:49:58 PM
Name: Sovann


Subject: Re: Re: How difficult is self-defense?

Full contact can apply to self-defense - training it can develop a lot of attributes, mental and physical toughness.
"Everyone has a plan, until they get hit."
One step self-defense techs are great for learning body mechanics, concepts, vital targets, flow, etc. but you have to try it against increasing resistance. Full contact also can help overcome fear if done progressively. Too much, too soon can cause a flinch to develop and set you back.
There is a difference between "self-defense" and a "street-fight" situation too.
If you are attacked on the street by some "punk" it is likely that he has fought or attacked people before, don't assume he is untrained, alone or unarmed. Could be the last assumption you ever make.


Date: 02/6/01 01:10:59 PM
Name: Scott


Subject: a street punk's answer

I've never been in a fight, so I passed this question on to my very good buddy who has been in many, many fights.

Q: Do we really need to know kick-boxing and full-contact to learn self-defense?
A: This depends on the person, for obvious reasons.

Q: Is the old Japanese "one-blow is enough" concept valid for self-defense?
A: I think we both know it isn't. Whoever gets the first good blow usually wins, but it isn't enough to stop the fight unless its a knock-out blow. Both sides will suffer injury of some sort, and the real test is what happens immediately after the first blow.

Q: How much can a street punk know about real fighting, anyway?
A: Define real fighting. I contend that the street punk does real
fighting, and that martial arts is practice for real fighting. More on that in the next question, though.

Q: Why couldn't a well-trained green belt in any good martial art
take care of the average undisciplined, untrained street punk?
A: He usually can. But he will suffer some injuries. Martial arts trains a fighter to stay calm, think about his actions, and move in the optimal way. The martial arts guy will still probably take a few hits. The guy on the street will not be so intellectual about his moves, and will therefore probably lose more times than not. However, if the street guy gets in the first good blow or has an advantage he knows how to use (like being 100 lbs heavier than the martial arts guy, and being good and turning a fight into a wrestling match) then the odds may tip his way. 

Date: 02/12/01 02:02:39 AM
Name: John R. Himes


Subject: Re: How difficult is self-defense?

These are all good thoughts. However, let me narrow things down some. What do you think the difference in self-defense and street-fighting (or fighting as a sport) is? Also, what are our training goals in preparing for each? 

Date: 02/12/01 02:26:40 PM
Name: Scott


Subject: Re: self-defense vs street fighting

These are all good thoughts. However, let me narrow things down some. What do you think the difference in self-defense and street-fighting (or fighting as a sport) is? Also, what are our training goals in preparing for each?

When I think of "self-defense," I think of hurting the guy just enough so that I can escape. And I think of aikido-ish stuff that allows me to escape without necessarily hurting the guy at all. And I think of kickboxing-ish stuff: jab, cross, knee, rear leg sweep. In short, I think of a YMCA class. This is what I think of.

When I think of "street-fighting," I think of fighting dirty. I think of biting, poking eyes, pinching, whacking him with a beer bottle. I think of 3 or 4 against 1. I think of breaking his arm, not waiting for the tap-out. I think of breaking his arm, not just pinning him to the ground. I even think of breaking his neck. I think of someone jumping out from behind the parked car, and swinging at me. I think, "How am I going to stop this guy from killing me where I stand, in the next 3 seconds?!" That's what I think of.

And, I think both self-defense and street-fighting are parts of the grand thing called "martial arts." There's room enough for both. Actually, they probably need each other. Probably one could not exist long in the absense of the other.

You can train for "self-defense" in a boxing ring, and in a college wrestler's cirle, and with the gym equipment common to these sports. You can train children from age 5 or so, up to age 105 or so. Self-defense is a typical taekwondo or muay thai or judo class in America. After a certain amount of training, you can go full speed and full contact in "self-defense" if you want to.

Training for "street-fighting" is different, in that you can never go full speed or full contact. You can only simulate a "fight," but, with some intelligence, and after achieving a certain level of experience, your simulations can be quite scary. By design, "street-fighting" fights are very brief. It's over in a few seconds because at least one combatant, and hopefully only one, has died or been incapacitated. Because of the quickness of the true encounter, the training has to be broken up into discreet packages of attack and/or defense techniques. These packages are drilled over and over again until the the student can do it reflexively. In the beginning, some of these drills will be the same drills used for "self-defense." Ex- how to do a leg sweep, how to bob and weave a punch. Most of them, though, will be different, for the simple reason that the goal is different. The boxer often saves his powerful right hook for round 4, because he's fighting for a trophy, and he knows that by this time, the cops would have broken up the fight. The street fighter often begins with his powerful right hook because he's fighting to preserve his body, and maybe his family, and in the extreme case maybe even his home.

Most any martial art has great training methods for "self-defense." As for "street-fighting" training, the best I've seen is sera-serak silat. Serak silat players honestly practice with live blades, and they really do learn the biology and physics of breaking bones. They use sharp blades because a sharp blade sharpens your concentration in class. It also ups your heartrate. Most importantly, it makes you question and doubt everything else you ever learned about "street-fighting." But the point of any training is to improve upon last week's training. 

Date: 02/6/01 06:59:30 PM
Name: Sovann


Subject: Praises anyone?

Hello friends,

What is God doing in your life? In your ministry? Is karate just a hobby or do you feel it is a skill that glorifies God?

My wife and I are reading Experiencing God workbook and it is a blessing to us. I am meditating on "Abiding in Christ" these days. Apart from Him I can do nothing.
Do you think that there is a move of God within the Christian MA community on the horizon? Or is it just kind of our own little groups here and there?
I've read the reports of Phil Lewis' ministry in Brazil and those are very encouraging. So, please share what you see God doing.
Our God is a good God and greatly to be praised!

Thanks, Sovann 

Date: 02/6/01 07:23:41 PM
Name: Vicki


Subject: Re: Praises anyone?

God is doing a lot in my life right now.
For one, he's allowing me to keep up with my schooling so that I will graduate in May.
He's also speaking to me in dreams about a Christian Martial Arts school of my own one day. Just a few days ago, another vision of a patch came to mind.

About the Christian Martial Arts I think it's a way for us to fellowship with others in the same beliefs but also to spead it as well.
Why do I say this? I got to an AOL chat room, people see my screen name, and some know right away what the JC stands for, Jesus Christ, while others ask. I have only had one person say please discuss that in private, but I never did. So many wanted to know about it, and also when they read my profile asked what the INCMA is. I have a statement in there that says Christians and the Martial Arts go together like peanut butter and jelly.
With the Christian Martial Arts, even though currently I do not train in a facility, I am able to share my thoughts, ideas, and dreams with college classmates who wish they had some type of martial arts school in our area like that. So oviousally they are interested.

I have been looking a lot lately at martial arts supply uniforms and have markings near things I like and when someone looks over my sholder, and says why do you like, that, I share it.

An example is the Eagle patch from Century.
I wrote next to that, Isiaih 40:31 with the word blue top next to it. Someone asked what's that, and I told them the verse, and then told them blue is a sign of peace, for the Father gives us peace. He smiled, and said, I like that, what else do you have for ideas.
We ended up with a 2 hour conversation between class. So the combination of the two is really something amazing. 

Date: 02/7/01 01:25:01 AM
Name: Scott


Subject: Re: Praises

Interesting timing! I firmly believe that someday I will make a living doing martial arts, and use it as a witnessing tool in some way. I don't see the details yet, but it ain't time yet.

In furtherance of this goal, I've been trying to write articles for the various martial arts magazines. I've sent two so far. This week I received some feedback. I sent the first article to Inside Kung Fu. They're buying it. It'll be in the June 2001 issue. The contract, for me to sign, is enroute as I type this. I sent the second article to four magazines. No word from two of them. Number 3 said the photos were too dark to be used, but if I could reshoot, then they'd take it. Number 4 is Inside Kung Fu. They sent a lovely letter expressing interest if only I would make three specific changes to the article. I'm making those changes this week.

I have two more articles written, but unsent. One of them will go out in the mail very soon. The photos for article number 2 are problematic. I've done three shootings so far, all of them disastrous. Ugh. I think I'll put that one on the back shelf and move on to other ideas.

I think there is a move of God within the Christian community as a whole, but it's occuring in pockets here and there. There is also a growing current of false doctrine erupting within the Christian church. A spiritual fight is brewing. George Bush's presidency is a God-given period of calm so that we might prepare ourselves for the battle ahead. That's what I feel about it. I say "feel" because it's a feeling that stirs inside me. I'm not speaking from my intellectual brain here.

Some of those genuine God-following pockets are MA groups, for sure. My former aikido teacher, with whom I keep in contact, just got a job teaching Christian aikido at a private Christian school, Monday to Friday. Praise God for that. He's still teaching and witnessing at the Zen karate school two nights a week. Something I found interesting when I was taking aikido was that the aikido class maintained it's membership, while the other three "bonus" classes -- jujitsu, kickboxing, and aerobic kickboxing -- floundered and died. My teacher and I both felt that God was making a point to the school's owner through the membership rolls. 

Date: 02/8/01 11:41:40 AM
Name: David Lieder


Subject: Re: Praises anyone?

Great timing on this subject.

Just conducted 4 chapel services at a local christian school (K-12) yesterday. I'm a little sore and tired but very fulfilled.
Our demonstrations are as follows:
1. Intro & prayer.
2. Warm-up w/ kicks, punches & push-ups (I relate that we all need to warm-up every morning with prayer & the word of God).
3. Patterns. A very basic pattern by all demo team then 1 member in center shows how it is used to fight off multiple attackers. Then team perfoms an advanced pattern. (all is related to continual practice & reading Bible & also demonstrating skill to demonstrating kindness).
4. Self-Defense skits (relate that the Bible has all the self-defense moves we need because we are constantly under attack everyday from satan).
5. Board & Brick breaking (write individual sins on boards & bricks. Symbolize Jesus breaking these sins)
6. Finally; on that day when we stand in front of the Lord we will be there with all of our sins, no matter how small. We won't be able to defend ourselves against satan's claims. Only Jesus can and has defended us.

We are constantly adding new things to demos and look forward to next one.


Date: 02/8/01 12:41:03 AM
Name: Kevin D. Schaller


Subject: Re: Praises anyone?

Just got home from Wednesday night services. I was approached by our Celebration (Worship) Pastor who asked me to consider how we could integrate the martial arts outreach into some of the regular services, either some type of demonstration or integration into the drama ministry. Interesting timing indeed.

I've been away from this forum for a while, so forgive the redundancy, to those of you who know me. I 've been running a kenpo-based martial arts outreach for Carson Valley Christian here in Northern Nevada for just over 2 years now. I teach 2 nights a week and have about 100 active students. I support the ministry financially and teach all classes. While we haven't "harvested many souls", we have created an excellent entree to our students into other ministry activities in our church. I also teach defensive tactics to our local Sheriff's Dept. and that has also drawn families into our church. Some plant seeds, some till the soil, some reap the harvest....

I would also encourage you to offer to host area instructor's workouts if you have training facilities. We have done this locally and each month between 20-40 instructor's gather for a training session and fellowship. It's not a Christian activity, but you can bet His influence is present. (Our senior ranking instructor is also a believer) The sessions are open to all black belts and active instructors regardless of style. It's a really great fellowship builder and I hope you can get one started in your area.
in His grip,
Kevin Schaller 

Date: 03/2/01 04:02:10 PM
Name: Scott


Subject: gonna be in pictures!

Letter dated 3/1/01 -
"Dear Scott,
Thanks for your recent article submission, Silat Knife vs. Knife Defense, for Black Belt Magazine.

The article is good, and we'd be interested in considering it, but the photos aren't quite up to publication standards. Most of them are out of focus, and the lighting is poor.

However, our editor would like to extend to you an invitation to shoot them at our studio here in Valencia. What do you think?

We look forward to hearing from you. You can reach our Editor, Bob Young, at --.

Sincerely, Pony R. Horton, Chief Photography/Assistant Editor
Black Belt Magazine. "

I'll tell you what I think. I think my head is spinning around the clouds right now! I think I might have hit the jackpot! Me, in Black Belt Magazine.

My mother always said that triumph begins with "try." 

Date: 02/15/01 07:37:00 PM
Name: Sovann


Subject: Re: Praises anyone?

Thanks to everyone who replied. Very encouraging to see how the Lord is working in different ways to bring glory to Himself and using you in the process.

Vicki, I love the "peanut butter and jelly" quote. I've also found that many, Christian and and non-Christians, are very intrigued by MA & Christianity. When I share I try to emphasize that it's not about MA and a religion, like MA and Buddhism, or MA and animism, or whatver. It's all about a living relationship with Jesus. And the freedom we have in Him.

Scott, post when you find out the issue your articles will be posted. I'm looking forward to them. Congrats.

David, I hope the Lord will continue to bless you, your family and your students.

Sola Deo Gloria,

Date: 02/10/01 03:03:35 AM
Name: Carl C. Anderson


Subject: HELP!!!

I am looking for a Christian dojo or Sensei who teaches in the North Chicago/North Suburban, Illinois area!!! I am looking for someone who is a hardcore Christian (I am a Baptist) and teaches martial arts with that being the ONLY driving force spiritually.
Thank you for your feedback and GOD BLESS YOU ALL!!! 

Date: 02/16/01 12:02:10 AM
Name: Kevin D. Schaller


Subject: Re: HELP!!!

I'll check with a guy I know (via the net) who is a member of a 5 dojo Christian group. I think they have a location in Chicago. It might take a week or so to get back to you so please be patient. Visit and send an email to them, as I think they also have an affiliate in Chicago.
Best regards,

Date: 02/16/01 12:35:37 AM
Name: Carl C. Anderson


Subject: Re: Re: HELP!!!

Thank you, Thank you, Thank you!!! GOD BLESS!!!